v9.0 Tournament Rules: Trackmania (Walk-up)

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08 Aug 2011 08:37 - 09 Aug 2011 02:05 #17795 by Plague
Trackmania Rules:
- Map: custom map TDA
- 1 practice and 1 actual attempt* in the same sitting.
- Score from actual attempt is only score counted.
- keyboard only (keyboard layout is stock settings with restart key unbound).
- no 3rd party keyboard or game controllers.

*attempt is defined as getting from start to finish.

NOTE: These rules are subject to change before the event.
Last edit: 09 Aug 2011 02:05 by Plague.

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08 Aug 2011 09:48 #17802 by Leonresevil2
So, 'Trackmania' means Audiosurf, right? ;)

Of course, we can find what the custom track is and download it to our own machines during the lan to practice. Right? Unless you make it yourself, or somehow block the internet from downloading that specific file. Everything else looks good.

Oh, and be sure to get a keyboard with a crappy Left key, like the Ms. Pac Man tournament so long ago. I worked my ass off to win that tourney! And it was epic.
Followed by keyboard smash.

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.

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08 Aug 2011 17:30 #17816 by Lersar

Leonresevil2 wrote: Oh, and be sure to get a keyboard with a crappy Left key, like the Ms. Pac Man tournament so long ago. I worked my ass off to win that tourney! And it was epic.
Followed by keyboard smash.


lol i was hoping no one would remember that...
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08 Aug 2011 21:24 - 08 Aug 2011 21:25 #17830 by Plague

Leonresevil2 wrote: So, 'Trackmania' means Audiosurf, right? ;)

nope it is trackmania

Leonresevil2 wrote: Of course, we can find what the custom track is and download it to our own machines during the lan to practice. Right?

I am working on a custom map, and it will be only on the machine we run the tournament on. It will not be available to practice before doing the practice run listed in the rules. This is just to make everything fair for everyone.
Last edit: 08 Aug 2011 21:25 by Plague.

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09 Aug 2011 01:33 #17842 by Dreyvas
Wait, so no restarts? ...what?

What do you define as an "attempt?" One lap, or however many times you can try in a certain time limit?

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09 Aug 2011 02:00 #17848 by Plague

Dreyvas wrote: Wait, so no restarts? ...what?

What do you define as an "attempt?" One lap, or however many times you can try in a certain time limit?


By restarts we mean starting complete over (resetting the timer), we are leaving the respawn key bound which puts you back to the last check point, but the timer will continue going.

Attempt is getting from start to finish. You can respawn to the last check point as many times as you want, so I would do that during the practice attempt where time doesn't count.

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09 Aug 2011 02:22 #17849 by Dreyvas
I'm not trying to be overly critical, but those rules just don't sound enjoyable at all. The slightest mistake without restarts and you're just done, and a single run-through of a practice lap is barely even worth it. Having respawns without restarts is useless, since you respawn without any momentum which leaves you way behind. Why such a departure from our normal format of time-limited rounds? That would still be a viable option for a walk-up tournament as long as the timers were kept low, and it'd give everyone a bit of a margin for error and keep things fun. If the track was fairly short (~30 seconds for a lap) we could still do two-minute rounds and go through things fairly quickly. One two-minute round with restarts and no practice round sounds infinitely preferable to me, what do some of the rest of you think?

Just my two cents, thanks for all the work you're putting into the tourneys.

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09 Aug 2011 02:36 #17852 by garfi3ld
its something to consider

Wes

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09 Aug 2011 02:59 #17856 by Nacelle
+1 to Drayvas on his points. Though I don't understand the reasoning behind the walk-up part. I always thought the old way worked fine. Fill up the server, top 3 move on. Not that I really care, I suck at Trackmania.

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09 Aug 2011 03:46 #17860 by garfi3ld
We wanted to make sure to get a third tournament in that everyone could play in, but there is only so much time in the schedule. Tournaments like LoL and TF2 can take a lot of time.

Wes

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09 Aug 2011 04:03 #17862 by Dreyvas

garfi3ld wrote: We wanted to make sure to get a third tournament in that everyone could play in, but there is only so much time in the schedule. Tournaments like LoL and TF2 can take a lot of time.


Yeah, and I understand that's the reasoning behind the original rules. I just feel like two minute rounds would be more fun for less-experienced players, while taking barely (if any) longer than the original rule-set, so I figured I'd just toss the idea out there to see if there was any interest. :lol:

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09 Aug 2011 04:29 #17863 by garfi3ld
yup, I will talk over with the guys soon when we go over a few other details. If we do change the rules we will edit this post

Wes

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09 Aug 2011 06:14 #17871 by Leonresevil2
I guess that is why it's not Audiosurf, as people could get the song and practice. Unlimited practices before coming to the staff and requesting an official run sounded good, or (gasp, perhaps?) making the song available to all interested to practice, and then implement 1 optional practice on the specific computer then an official run. Possibly break control methods into tiers, or make everyone use the arrow keys (I do it, I think no one else does but I personally prefer it).

Not trying to be that guy, or critical or sarcastic. I think the current method can work. Just, PLEASE, design a good track and test it with the staff. No full-speed track, no stop-start stuff, no 'it looks like you should go this way but secretly you should go that way' stuff, no 'you drove too fast and flew off the track' stuff, nothing that makes everyone want to rage. Tracks should flow, and ideally not require perfection.
Otherwise it's only a competition between a few people here... :lookaround:

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.
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09 Aug 2011 07:09 #17878 by Wingless92
Have only one practice and one run through will make for some really entertaining results. Does it really matter if you win with a 5 min time? It should be awesome to see how people react with it.

Just remember, it's all in fun.

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09 Aug 2011 07:10 #17879 by Dreyvas

Wingless92 wrote: Have only one practice and one run through will make for some really entertaining results. Does it really matter if you win with a 5 min time? It should be awesome to see how people react with it.

Just remember, it's all in fun.


The question is whether it will be entertaining for the people watching or the people playing. XD

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09 Aug 2011 07:14 #17880 by Wingless92
Remember Excitebike last year? That was awesome! lol

I hear what your saying though.

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09 Aug 2011 07:30 #17881 by Lersar

Wingless92 wrote: Remember Excitebike last year? That was awesome! lol

lol our old school tournament is getting dangerously close to becoming a tradition with something not working. its almost half the fun!

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09 Aug 2011 22:58 #17932 by KenCoTwelve
Having ran TMN/TMNF tournaments before, this is just plain silly. You can have a tournament last 30 minutes long and encompass a lot of people. I would suggest if you just want one round, host a server and then do 8 minutes of trying to record best time, or if you want to base it on place and do it to a race of 60 points. This is just silly. Plus no 3rd party controllers? That's ridiculous, as driving with a keyboard is just dumb.

My opinion, take it as you leave it, but I've been running TMN/TMNF tournaments for 6 years now.

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09 Aug 2011 23:07 - 09 Aug 2011 23:11 #17933 by Lersar

KenCoTwelve wrote: Having ran TMN/TMNF tournaments before, this is just plain silly. You can have a tournament last 30 minutes long and encompass a lot of people. I would suggest if you just want one round, host a server and then do 8 minutes of trying to record best time, or if you want to base it on place and do it to a race of 60 points. This is just silly. Plus no 3rd party controllers? That's ridiculous, as driving with a keyboard is just dumb.

My opinion, take it as you leave it, but I've been running TMN/TMNF tournaments for 6 years now.

Appreciate the feedback. TMN was featured as a genre tournament during our last event in the format you mentioned. We are looking to add a new style, the walk-up tournament, which lasts all day and scores can be acquired at any time and is ran on one consistent PC which gamers literally 'walk up' to. TMN is a great candidate for this sort of method, and is always a great time.

3rd party controllers require additional mapping and configuration, which would not only need to be done for the person using it for his/her run but also reset or set again for the next. Trying to make the tournament so it can appeal to gamers of a large range of skill, it is much more simple to use one standard input method, as well as making the playing field fair since we are comparing scores with one another.

Oh, and silly? You obviously haven't met us in person. We're a bunch of crazy bastards indeed.
Last edit: 09 Aug 2011 23:11 by Lersar.

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09 Aug 2011 23:13 #17934 by KenCoTwelve
If I'm able to walk up and keep trying, okay then, but getting one warm up and one crack is basically a shot in the dark.

That, and making it a even playing field would be good if the walk up PC had a controller then. Remember, nearly all major driving games occur on a controller including the Need For Speed, Drift, etc. series. It's basically like asking someone to use a keyboard to play street fighter 4. Just my $00.02, I'm looking to see where to sign up, I have 5 people ready to pay

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09 Aug 2011 23:24 #17936 by garfi3ld
We are looking at changing the one shot system so something a little more flexible.


As for where to sign up... Well registration for the LAN is at the top of the website but we have sold out of seats. Our events sell out quickly due to a limited capacity in our current building. Please keep an eye out for our next event, we haven't set a date yet but are hoping for April time frame 2012.

Wes

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10 Aug 2011 01:16 #17948 by Dreyvas
On the subject of controllers, why not just have a choice between keyboard at stock (except hopefully a restart button mapped) and a wired 360 controller with typical mapping? Quick glance at the controls and go, both keyboard and controller users are happy.

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10 Aug 2011 01:22 #17949 by garfi3ld
we have been talking about that in the staff area, the main concern is that no matter how we set it up there will be some people who still complain about the controller config. Also we don't have a controller on hand over than a Steel Series controller without analog sticks. Using a keyboard may not be ideal but it would atleast be consistent from one person to the next.

Wes

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10 Aug 2011 01:26 #17950 by Dreyvas

garfi3ld wrote: we have been talking about that in the staff area, the main concern is that no matter how we set it up there will be some people who still complain about the controller config. Also we don't have a controller on hand over than a Steel Series controller without analog sticks. Using a keyboard may not be ideal but it would atleast be consistent from one person to the next.


Yeah, I can see that. I have a wired 360 controller that we could use for the tourney if you want. I mean, if we just use a fairly standard layout and post a printout of it or something I would hope it would be pretty hard to complain about. A accelerate, B brake, stick to steer and then maybe a reset button is all we would really need unless I'm forgetting something major. Who uses the horn anyway :P

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10 Aug 2011 03:05 #17957 by Leonresevil2

Lersar wrote: lol our old school tournament is getting dangerously close to becoming a tradition with something not working. its 95.6% of the fun!


Fixed.
I personally like the keyboard idea, maybe from being PC focused now, maybe from nostalgia of playing original Trackmania back before Steam was great, and before controllers on PC were good.

The idea of score competition and things like that made me think of doing a MNC Blitz competition, tier 2 (Season I think?) difficulty, 20 rounds (really it's like 10 minutes max), could be solo or any sized teams, and would just need a staffer or something to keep track of the server scores (money earned by end). Idea to play around with. I'd say if we allowed teams, maybe then do that new Blitz map that's a total epic pain to survive 5 rounds in.

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.

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10 Aug 2011 04:35 - 10 Aug 2011 04:36 #17965 by jj_Sky5000

Leonresevil2 wrote:
Fixed.
I personally like the keyboard idea, maybe from being PC focused now, maybe from nostalgia of playing original Trackmania back before Steam was great, and before controllers on PC were good.


When where Pc controllers bad, I have been using my microsoft sidewinder since USB was invented!!! Its great for racing games!!!
Last edit: 10 Aug 2011 04:36 by jj_Sky5000.
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10 Aug 2011 05:07 #17966 by Nacelle
USB?!?! I had a game pad that worked just fine using that stupid "game port" that came on sound cards.

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10 Aug 2011 13:11 - 10 Aug 2011 13:12 #17976 by Leonresevil2

Leonresevil2 wrote: I personally like the keyboard idea, maybe from being PC focused now, maybe from nostalgia of playing original Trackmania back before Steam was great, and before controllers on PC were mainstream, Xbox controllers


Maybe that's more accurate. I still have the old gamepad I had for computer, didn't find it that great. Figured all the PC stuff was not that well designed since controllers were the big deal for consoles. Then again, they say PC gaming is dead, so apparently it was alive and much bigger than it is now back then. Or so I hear.

And if you still use that 'game port' controller, +1 to you.

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.
Last edit: 10 Aug 2011 13:12 by Leonresevil2.

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10 Aug 2011 16:05 #17986 by L0rdG1gabyt3

Leonresevil2 wrote: And if you still use that 'game port' controller, +1 to you.

I actually found a hack to re-enable the game port when I had Vista. I REALLY needed to use my MS Sidewinder joystick so I could play X-Wing vs Tie Fighter.

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