normal Considering a new rig

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23 Apr 2010 02:33 #4418 by Leonresevil2
I'm messed around with computer parts some, but I have never built one so far. My issue is not how, but where to start in buying. I'm not sure what I should look at buying, how everything is compatible, and all that. I assume that the mobo dictates what all can be connected and put in the system, but I don't know what to look for in a motherboard (features and ports).

Basically, I'm wanting to built a starter gaming PC, decent enough to compete but not expensive. I would like to have a smaller case for it, mostly portable for LANs, but I don't want to start with that and limit my video card to something small and weak. I'm basically looking for something like a smaller Shuttle or Lunchbox build. I was thinking of looking for a pre-built gaming PC, and using specs listed to get ideas on what to get, but I haven't found anything yet. Any advice on where to start? Companies, products, terms to look for in parts?

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.

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23 Apr 2010 02:41 #4419 by garfi3ld
Replied by garfi3ld on topic Considering a new rig
the only place to start is by setting a budget. From there we can help point you in the right direction on what to buy

Wes

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23 Apr 2010 02:52 #4430 by NitrosDragon
Replied by NitrosDragon on topic Considering a new rig
garfi3ld wrote:

the only place to start is by setting a budget. From there we can help point you in the right direction on what to buy

Right, right.
Always the first thing I ask from people who want to build a new computer. What are the limitations? Usually money.

[nahy-trohs-drag-uhn]
DISCLAIMER: If my reply offends you, I probably did it on purpose

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23 Apr 2010 03:00 #4441 by Leonresevil2
Replied by Leonresevil2 on topic Considering a new rig
*winces* $500? I probably can't all new stuff of good quality for that, but I would like to. If I can fit a new mouse, headset, and screen in that, I would be pleased.

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.

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23 Apr 2010 03:04 #4443 by NitrosDragon
Replied by NitrosDragon on topic Considering a new rig
My rig only cost me $500 originally.
That is, though, with the case JJ gave me at the lan. <3

Erika has a thread around here somewhere.

[nahy-trohs-drag-uhn]
DISCLAIMER: If my reply offends you, I probably did it on purpose

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23 Apr 2010 03:04 #4444 by garfi3ld
Replied by garfi3ld on topic Considering a new rig
i would suggest starting with a i7-980X

Wes

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23 Apr 2010 03:11 #4446 by NitrosDragon
Replied by NitrosDragon on topic Considering a new rig
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


All of this was paid for my original build of Erika. There are other parts, but they either came afterward or were gifts/prizes.

[nahy-trohs-drag-uhn]
DISCLAIMER: If my reply offends you, I probably did it on purpose

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23 Apr 2010 03:17 #4449 by garfi3ld
Replied by garfi3ld on topic Considering a new rig
do you have any parts to start with?

just as fair warning, a $500 gaming rig won't last very long. Thats without the other things listed.

Wes

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23 Apr 2010 03:31 #4452 by Leonresevil2
Replied by Leonresevil2 on topic Considering a new rig
I suppose I could use my desktop case if I really needed, but that's about it. My desktop is old (2003) from Gateway, nothing really salvageable there for gaming now. I just basically want something that will be able to get me around 30 FPS on MW2, BFBC2, and Crysis Wars (optional). I'm tired of chugging with my laptop. I don't need 2TBs, I don't need 16x AA, I don't need super-HD stuff, I don't do video stuff, I'm planning to use this solely for gaming and some... SSSTTTTOOOOORRRAAAAAGGGEEE!! (There, you can't have that post lol ;) )

I've played on weak hardware long enough that I don't care if it's not pretty, I just want higher FPS. I honestly don't know that I even need 64-bit support (I haven't seen anything distinctly work better from it that I use, and few things I have support 64-bit). So, basically I just want something on par with a 2007 gaming machine, roughly. I'm not planning to own on Prime95 scores and the like. That will come later.

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.

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23 Apr 2010 15:45 - 23 Apr 2010 15:48 #4515 by technobear
Replied by technobear on topic Considering a new rig
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103706
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102864
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147023
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018

the video card is a bit higher than youd probably expect but youll get alot of benifit from it.

This is just my humble opinion.

Im not 100% on compatibility. Sometimes there are nuances that i miss.

For budget machines there is nothing wrong with AMD.. but when im building a rig i know i want to last a long time its Intel all the way.
Last edit: 23 Apr 2010 15:48 by technobear.

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23 Apr 2010 16:10 #4517 by Reaper
Replied by Reaper on topic Considering a new rig
I'm all for building a custom PC when you can... But on a $500 budget, why not do something like this:

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/ltd/en/us/dhs/inspiron_570_ddcwba6?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

When you get the cash, throw in a Radeon 5770 or something similar.

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23 Apr 2010 16:20 #4518 by pacobedejo
Replied by pacobedejo on topic Considering a new rig
AMD Athlon II X2 250 Regor 3.0GHz Dual Core
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103681
I just built a HTPC with this CPU. It's quite fast & I'm sure it would do fine for gaming. You don't need to fork over the cash for a quad-core in a low-budget gaming rig. I'm still enjoying my Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz.

ASUS M4A78LT-M LE AM3 AMD 780L Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131619

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231275

EVGA 512-P3-N871-AR GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130339
I just upgraded to an ATI 5770 from this card. If you can spend more money here, get a 5770.

COOLER MASTER Elite 460 RS-460-PSAR-J3 460W ATX12V V2.31 Power Supply
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171046

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181
According to Passmark , this is the fastest conventional HDD available (score 888) and it's dirt cheap. I just installed it's 1TB brother (score 868) in my rig.

Cheap DVD Burner
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289

This all adds to my cart for a total of $490.76 & it has $40 of mail-in rebates.

I'm running a 270 watt PSU in my HTPC...so the 460 watt I've listed here should be more than enough to power the GPU. It's all being cooled by (1) 80mm fan & the stock AMD CPU HSF. Just find an el-cheapo case with some 120mm fans & you should be golden.

If you can add money anywhere, I'd start first with the GPU, then the CPU. If you go too wild on the GPU, I'd bump up to a 600 watt PSU just to be on the safe side.

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23 Apr 2010 17:07 #4522 by Wingless92
Replied by Wingless92 on topic Considering a new rig
Easy build by the way

The AMD quad for $100

Any ASUS motherboard

ATI 5770 best cheap card out right now

Small SSD, aka 30gb ones.

Use a 500gb drive for everything else.

I use only Corsair RAM cause it overclocks so well.

I would also get a nice CPU cooler to overclock that quad.

Get a cheapo case, PSU I would recommend Corsair but that's me, I would really look hard at RAM, you want 4gb but it's pretty expensive right now, on my old PC I had 8gb, but it was $100 total, it's $100 for 4gb now.

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23 Apr 2010 17:44 #4525 by Twodavez
Replied by Twodavez on topic Considering a new rig
Funny that a small SSD is starting to be suggested for a budget rig... I'm really looking forward to getting one when i finally break down and upgrade to windows 7
Good luck on the build. I stressed out figuring out what i wanted also. You need to find one part and build around it, because everyting reacts differently when you start adding things. Find a CPU and stick with it, then build around it. Otherwise you'll never settle on someting because your constantly compairing things. Too bad you didn't win anything big towards the build at the last LAN. That's usually a good place to get that one item to build around. It was for me and my i7 system...

“Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” - Mark Twain

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23 Apr 2010 17:56 #4534 by pacobedejo
Replied by pacobedejo on topic Considering a new rig
Paco's edits shown in orange

Wingless92 wrote:

Easy build by the way

The AMD quad for $100

Any ASUS motherboard $60

ATI 5770 best cheap card out right now $160

Small SSD, aka 30gb ones. $110

Use a 500gb drive for everything else. $55

I use only Corsair RAM cause it overclocks so well.$100+

I would also get a nice CPU cooler to overclock that quad.$30+

Get a cheapo case $20+, PSU I would recommend Corsair but that's me $60+, I would really look hard at RAM, you want 4gb but it's pretty expensive right now, on my old PC I had 8gb, but it was $100 total, it's $100 for 4gb now.


$100+$60+$160+$110+$55+$100+$30+$20+$60 = $695 not including optical drive. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that would make a pretty good system, but it's far enough from the OP's $500 budget that it only confuses the discussion, IMO...

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23 Apr 2010 18:01 #4536 by Twodavez
Replied by Twodavez on topic Considering a new rig
I don't think you really need a SSD especially if your thinking budget. Nothing wrong with putting windows and games on a normal HD, i doubt you'll notice much of a lag from it. I know i don't have any problems and i just have a normal 500 gb drive with everyting on it. Save the $110.00 and buy a heat sink to over clock the CPU or put it towards a monitor!

“Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” - Mark Twain

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23 Apr 2010 18:07 #4538 by pacobedejo
Replied by pacobedejo on topic Considering a new rig
Twodavez wrote:

I don't think you really need a SSD especially if your thinking budget. Nothing wrong with putting windows and games on a normal HD


I put www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393 into my HTPC as the only HDD. But, I don't have tuners or anything in it. It's just a web-portal & I stream videos from networked HDDs to it. My gaming rig has a well-rated 1TB that I install all of my games/programs to. I won't touch SSDs for gaming until I can get 200GB or more for under $100.

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23 Apr 2010 18:35 #4542 by Wingless92
Replied by Wingless92 on topic Considering a new rig
You can find cheaper prices with that system. You just have to do some hunting, the SSD is about $85 and totally worth it over RAM.

I hate doing budget builds cause you are always going to leave something out that you really want. I would save up some more if it was me.

The thing that sucks with the i7's is that everything is about $300 each. CPU, Mobo, Ram.

Regardless, buy the SSD, over RAM anyday. Your system will run alot faster and you'll get more done. I have one and it smokes the Velociraptor by a long shot.

I would still do the AMD cpu, SSD, 5770, 2gb RAM, and a Corsair PSU, the DVD drives are shit cheap, $20 I got mine for.

Use the old case and use that $$$ for more RAM if need be.

You can scrap some stuff to upgrade other but it's hard to come to a consensus.

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23 Apr 2010 19:24 - 23 Apr 2010 19:31 #4553 by pacobedejo
Replied by pacobedejo on topic Considering a new rig
Wingless92 wrote:

You can find cheaper prices with that system. You just have to do some hunting.

Your previous suggestion was 43% over OP's budget if you throw in a $21 optical drive to round it out. If you know where I can save an average of 43% off of Newegg's prices, please do tell.

Wingless92 wrote:

Regardless, buy the SSD, over RAM anyday. Your system will run alot faster and you'll get more done. I have one and it smokes the Velociraptor by a long shot.

The focus of a budget build isn't load times or storage space...I don't know why people have difficulty understanding that minimum-FPS is the ONLY focus of a budget rig. Furthermore...Raptors aren't the fastest platter drives out there unless you're randomly browsing your HD porn collection... Transfer speed matters.

Wingless92 wrote:

I would still do the AMD cpu (20% of budget), SSD (20% of budget), 5770 (32% of budget), 2gb RAM (13% of budget) & unusable when you upgrade, and a Corsair PSU (12% of budget), the DVD drives are shit cheap, $20 I got mine for. (4% of budget)
ORANGE ADDED BY PACO

While I don't disagree with everything you said, I'm having difficulty understanding the logic behind an extra ~$150 for a quad core & SSD which don't do anything for FPS while only putting in 2GB of RAM (which only saves about $40 over getting 4GB).
Last edit: 23 Apr 2010 19:31 by pacobedejo.

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23 Apr 2010 19:29 - 23 Apr 2010 19:32 #4555 by Leonresevil2
Replied by Leonresevil2 on topic Considering a new rig
Wow, lots of good input. Thanks all. The Dell looks interesting, but so much scripting, it will take me a bit to get it navigating right. But that did catch my interest. As for building, I would probably pass on SSD for now unless I could use that in place of RAM (which I doubt highly). 2 or 3GB RAM seems like it would work for me, I've read a lot that says above 4GB is just overkill unless you are running a workstation or something complex. I'm glad to see that a $500 system can be done.

The discussion did bring up another question of mine, how do you determine the wattage needed for your power supply?

EDIT after paco's post: Also, is it better to stick with even RAM values (2, 4, 8), and is there an issue with 3GB RAM? I ask, since it seems no one has mentioned putting in 3, just 2 or 4.

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.
Last edit: 23 Apr 2010 19:32 by Leonresevil2.

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23 Apr 2010 19:32 #4556 by technobear

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23 Apr 2010 19:35 #4557 by pacobedejo
Replied by pacobedejo on topic Considering a new rig
Leonresevil2 wrote:

I would probably pass on SSD for now unless I could use that in place of RAM (which I doubt highly). 2 or 3GB RAM seems like it would work for me

Your doubts are correct. 3GB RAM would be fine, but most kits are 4GB. 2GB is pretty anemic & some games would push you over that during a long session.

Leonresevil2 wrote:

The discussion did bring up another question of mine, how do you determine the wattage needed for your power supply?

extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp is a good guideline for PSU calculations. Unless you're running multiple GPUs, 600w or higher is just a good way to spend more money.

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23 Apr 2010 19:49 #4563 by Nacelle
Replied by Nacelle on topic Considering a new rig
There's always a triple core if you're trying to knock the price down from a quad. Link

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23 Apr 2010 19:56 #4566 by Wingless92
Replied by Wingless92 on topic Considering a new rig
It's DDR2 so it's 2,4,8,16 and so on.

I would still say go with the $100 AMD quad, 5770 and whatever else you want. Sure you don't need a SSD, but they are amazing. Boot times in 20 seconds anyone? I would take an SSD over RAM anyday but that's me.

They have the 5770's on sale at Fry's for $130 right now.

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23 Apr 2010 20:03 #4569 by technobear
Replied by technobear on topic Considering a new rig
you know.. thinking about it.. a SSD on a slower rig could quite possibly bring it up to comparable speed to a more powerful system.. But thats alot of $ for a SSD

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23 Apr 2010 20:20 #4577 by Leonresevil2
Replied by Leonresevil2 on topic Considering a new rig
You guys are on the ball, thanks! Also, for a stock processor (not overclocked), would triple-core be better? I'm not sure that I want to OC, since I have never messed with it really.

And good to know about the 2GB, my laptop is limited to that, but doesn't really give me issues with running out. I think most of my strength needs to be in a GPU, since this build will probably be dedicated to gaming. I'm learning a lot from this, so thank you all. If Karma boosts weren't time limited, I would +1 you all now. But I'll be working on it, trust me.

pacobedejo,

"You should the forums"
Better words never said.

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23 Apr 2010 20:26 - 23 Apr 2010 20:27 #4579 by pacobedejo
Replied by pacobedejo on topic Considering a new rig
Nacelle wrote:

There's always a triple core if you're trying to knock the price down from a quad. Link

Good point Nacelle. You can jump up to www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103843 for about $20 more than the comparable dual core.

Wingless92 wrote:

It's DDR2 so it's 2,4,8,16 and so on.

Why would you do DDR2 when the cost for DDR3 is right about the same & will actually produce higher FPS?

Wingless92 wrote:

They have the 5770's on sale at Fry's for $130 right now.

The only one I can find is www.frys.com/product/6139339?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG for $159.99 + $7.45 shipping - $20 MIR for a total of $147.44

technobear wrote:

you know.. thinking about it.. a SSD on a slower rig could quite possibly bring it up to comparable speed to a more powerful system.. But thats alot of $ for a SSD

How does a SSD increase relevant speed for a budget gaming rig?
Last edit: 23 Apr 2010 20:27 by pacobedejo.

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23 Apr 2010 20:26 #4580 by technobear
Replied by technobear on topic Considering a new rig
the number of cores basically limits how many things your puter can do at once. So having 3 vs 2 merely means if the software you are using supports it, it will run on its own processor.

for example..

With a single core the processes have to switch on and off the processor and essentially share time.

With a dual core IE can use one core and then you can have Word run on the other core. and there will be less of a performance hit.

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23 Apr 2010 20:36 - 23 Apr 2010 20:38 #4586 by pacobedejo
Replied by pacobedejo on topic Considering a new rig
technobear wrote:

the number of cores basically limits how many things your puter can do at once. So having 3 vs 2 merely means if the software you are using supports it, it will run on its own processor.

for example..

With a single core the processes have to switch on and off the processor and essentially share time.

With a dual core IE can use one core and then you can have Word run on the other core. and there will be less of a performance hit.


To explain further, the reason 3 or more cores aren't necessary for gaming is because so few (if any?) games utilize more than 2 cores. When you go from a 3Ghz dual core to a 2.6Ghz quad core, you're actually going to lose FPS.

Only splurge for triple/quad core if you're going to do other intensive tasks while gaming.

My Core 2 Duo E8400 (OC'd to 3.6Ghz) runs WoW on one 1920x1200 monitor while running Hulu full screen on my other 1920x1200 monitor while running bittorrent, chat programs, 300MB worth of Firefox tabs, etc. I even ran (2) WoW clients, one on each monitor for awhile w/out issue. It forces the FPS down to 30 on the non-focused screen.

You only NEED triple or quad core when games change or when you decide to run multiple instances of games (dual/quad boxing an MMO) or decide you want to encode HD video while gaming. Otherwise you're just pissing your money away on a sub-par gaming CPU that'll have tons of unused clock-cycles.
Last edit: 23 Apr 2010 20:38 by pacobedejo.

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23 Apr 2010 20:39 - 23 Apr 2010 20:40 #4587 by pacobedejo
Replied by pacobedejo on topic Considering a new rig
double post...ignore
Last edit: 23 Apr 2010 20:40 by pacobedejo.

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