Shroud wrote:
It was not clear that mana is held in chests, and it really makes no sense if you think about it. I know that the classes don't have weapon variety, maybe they improve as you play more and more but I had no reason to put in a bunch of time as the game seemed like just spammy combat to me. And from what I saw, towers did NOT have pros and cons, they just got better. Sanctum is an example of a game with varied towers with pros/cons. And towers seemed infinitely buildable, or at least buildable enough to block routes and make traveling around the level be a pain for enemies and occasionally the player. It seemed like the strategy was to build towers to block in enemies on chokepoints and then spam attacks until they die.
Now, saying I'm not skilled enough just because the controls aren't perfect, that's honestly bullshit and below the belt. I didn't say anything about you. That's not cool. You've never wished for extra controls or freedom of movement in any game ever? Play Borderlands and tell me you honestly love navigating the menus with a mouse, staring at the tutorial you can't skip, and all those aspects of a game clearly designed for consoles.
Devil May Cry. THAT's elegance in combat; fluidity, depth, and freedom. The classes are clearly limited by the controls (aside from maybe the monk), and are just designed to be easy to hard instead of different styles and roles (see Borderlands, Diablo, etc.) And bumping up the difficulty is just scaling up the numbers, not making it more of a challenge. So they kill you and your towers easier and don't die as easily, spamming them and keeping out of range still wins. That's not more challenge.
You can defend your view on your game. But don't criticize my skill and ability as a gamer.

Shroud wrote:
Lolwut. Anyone that doesn't enjoy subpar controls must just not be skilled? Joke post

Sorry it sounded like I was attacking you, I wasn't. Poor wording on my part, just meant that I can adapt to controls quickly where alot of people who complain about controls can't, wasn't making a statement about your skills. I wasn't argueing about the elegance, just find it funny when elegance is combined with fighting. And no Dreyvas I said nothing about enjoying subpar controls but a lot of people can't adapt to different controls and blame the controls instead of trying to adjust. Do I love menu's not made for pc's no, am I gonna complain abot having to click a few more times, nope. And thanks for the being a troll.

How is a game getting harder (be it more enemies, harder enemies, etc.) not more of a challenge? Higher difficulty in the game throws more enemies with higher hp and damage at you. And the towers DO have pros and cons. Also I'm wondering did you even bother opeing the chests? in most games chests= good.. unless it is a monster that is going to eat you. I guess in the end I don't find the controls awkward or burdensome and while not the most complex game ever made it is a blast to play with friends.

Dreyvas wrote:
Fixed, happy now?
Shroud wrote:

Some people can't adjust or refuse to adjust to different controls. just because controls are different or because someone doesn't like them doesn't make them sub-par. That's all I was saying, if a game truly has bad controls then the controls are bad nothing much to say there, except I've only run into a few of those. But I never said people who think controls are sub-par are unskilled just that a lot of unskilled people blame the controls when in fact they are easy to adjust to given the effort, or are customizable. That is what I was saying. Love the picture.

"I suck at some games, but it's usually not the games fault." is what I'm getting at.

In all games that contain them, Chests are my favorite part of the game. (Think Duke Nukem)

I still need to get some Dungeon Defenders going but last night I got booted out of the group and with good reason, I was the fifth, lol.

Maybe we'll get some in at Nexus LAN.

Ok, so see Orcs Must Die as an example of what I wanted/expected. You can build where you look, not just 5 feet away when you lock yourself into position. You don't build towers that block paths and get attacked. You can actually take enemy aggro easily. You can fight quickly, easily, and get satisfying headshots and kill streaks. Your character looks and acts like a badass. There are areas for improvement (weapon upgrades, orc limb removal, multiplayer needed) but the higher level of polish is immediately evident. No silly item/level grinds, no lock-in controls, no slow animations. It's more player-dependent than Sanctum, which makes the lack of weapon improvements sad, but it still feels good and satisfying.

And can I get a 'hell yeah' to the idea of elegant combat in games? DMC, God of War, Bastion, something?

The main reason I chose Dungeon Defenders is because it is a multiplayer game. I find it more enjoyable to play with other people than just by myself. Better or not, OMD doesn't fit that bill for me.